[LISA LEWIS] The podcast is part of the Practice of the Practice network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you market and grow your business and yourself. To hear other podcasts like Faith Fringes, the Holistic Counseling Podcast, and Beta Male Revolution, go to the website, www.practiceofthepractice.com/slash network. . Welcome to the Am I Ok? Podcast, where you will discover that being highly sensitive is something to embrace and it’s actually a gift you bring to the world. We will learn together how to take ownership of your high sensitivity, so you can make positive changes in your life, in the lives of others, and it’s totally okay to feel this way. I’m your host, Lisa Lewis. I’m so glad you’re here for the journey. . Welcome to today’s episode of the Am I Ok? Podcast. I’m your host, Lisa Lewis. Today, I’m bringing you another live Am I Ok? Consultation, which is a part of a series of episodes. This is not your typical podcast interview. In this episode, I answer one big question a listener needs help with around high sensitivity, whether it’s for themselves, someone they know or anything else related to highly sensitive persons. I am so excited to bring this to you. Today’s guest is Clody Dumaliang. Clody is a former university professor in psychology and the Philippines. She’s a mental health therapist for the last 30 years and recently retired from Adventist Health, Glendale, California. Also I want to add in there that I have the pleasure of knowing Clody the last six years. And when I was going through my training to get licensed as a therapist, I worked with Clody at Adventist Health for a year and behavioral health, and it was wonderful to learn from her. I just remember when I got to work with her and we did coli groups that Clody has a heart of gold and to be in a group of her as a co-leading therapist that she helped me really get to know myself better and really how to be even a better listener than I thought I was and how to just really connect with the clients. So I’m so happy to have on the show today. Clody, welcome. [CLODY DUMALIANG] Thank you, Lisa. [LISA] So I wanted to ask you, do you consider yourself a highly sensitive person? And if you do, if you could tell us a little bit about your story. [CLODY] I do. I do consider myself highly sensitive and sometimes I call myself an empath and this works for me as a therapist. When I am seeing patients, I believe I really feel what they are telling me and what they are not telling me. There is an aspect of the personnel side though, whereby this characteristic of being empathetic or being highly sensitive can be overwhelming and exhausting. And that’s my question today. [LISA] Oh, okay. So I’m hearing that the gift part of it being empathetic and really understanding of the patient or the client, maybe more so than they know themselves and also that maybe that wounded side of feeling overwhelmed [CLODY] That’s right. And on the personnel side, an example is when I am at the hospital, and this is outside therapy, when I see people who are very sick, like when you see them in gurneys, wheelchairs, patients with no hair, those who are being treated for cancer and who are very skinny, I feel this overwhelming compassion. [LISA] Yes. And that’s what I know from my experience, just working with you and being with you that … [CLODY] Yes. And I can almost feel their pain and what is so good about this is sometimes I go home feeling more sad and sometimes emotionally exhausted. So what I do is I allow myself to feel and just be in the moment. So I tell myself, well, if that’s how you feel, that’s how you feel. If you feel really sad about what you see, it’s okay. So I tell myself that and appreciate it as a gift, the ability to feel deeply for others. But then again, and this goes on and on, it could be harder to manage. And I’m going to ask you, how can we manage these feelings? You know, these positive feelings. They’re not like anger or irritability, annoyance. It is kindness and compassion, but again, they could be exhausting and overwhelming. [LISA] Yes. And you’re not alone in this. And this is people in the helping field, whether it’s a therapist, counselor, doctor, nurse. Sometimes we can go over again and we don’t realize it until we have maybe burnout or we get sick ourselves. And sometimes that can be that we’re giving too much of ourselves to our patient or our client and just recognizing that or just seeing that, feeling that for yourself. It’s like, what if I just step back a little bit. It doesn’t mean that if we step back even talking about energy. So even kind of we just bring it back so we’re more in our own bubble, is that we’re not merging with the clients. And that way, when we step back and stay more inside of ourselves, we can also be compassionate. You can also be empathetic. You can have that listening ear and that we’re not maybe not so much colluding, but combining or merging with the other person. And that will help us not feel so tired at the end of the day. And I like to start my day before working with clients and at the end of the day, I do like a grounding and clearing. So to study my intention and when at the end of the day just clearing, actually my energy feel, my energy bubble around me. And just like, if you were, whether you’re working at home, you’re working in an office, it’s like, okay, maybe putting covering my laptop, I’m turning off the computer, I’m closing the door to walk out. That’s also like, I’m also leaving all of my clients, my patients here. I’m not taking them home with me. [CLODY] Oh, it’s good to know that there are so many things that we can do to find balance between allowing ourselves to be empathetic and feeling deeply for others and avoiding exhaustion and burnout at the same time. [LISA] Yes, I totally agree. And I wrote actually a blog about this during the pandemic when people shifted from going, working at home and then living at home and having those blending of the two and really having an intentional practice of when you’re stepping into your office and kind of shutting the door, leaving your home life behind, and also when you’re done for the day, like intentionally leaving the office and arriving at home. Well, there’s that. It’s just like opening and closing a door, or if you’re having to go outside, take a walk around the block before you come back home or before you go into your office. So really intentionally so that you recognize it in your mind and in your body that you’re transitioning between the two. And this is also the transition of working with clients and then ending your session. You don’t have to take anything with you of theirs. You can release that and still be in the mindset of holding that deep compassion and empathy. [CLODY] Oh, that’s a very good way to take care of ourselves. Now I have another question, Lisa. Are highly sensitive therapists or workers more susceptible to burnout compared to those who are, I would say, less sensitive? [LISA] So the question is, are highly sensitive therapists or — [CLODY] Therapists or workers more susceptible to burnout. [LISA] They can be if they don’t realize that they’re highly sensitive. So if they’re aware of it, then if you’re a highly sensitive person, you want to have a really good self-care routine for yourself. And that might be just as simply as working less hours, seeing less clients, if that’s feasible for you and really doing self care. Like you may need more time to yourself, more time to like recharge, doing things that help you bring you back to a sense of like balance as we were talking about earlier. [CLODY] So self-awareness is the first step? [LISA] Yes. So self-awareness, what do you like readily recognizing in yourself? Am I taking in other people’s, am I taking home other people’s stuff? And what can I do when I go home if I’m feeling tired and I’m really depleted? That’s what we want to be careful of. It’s that feeling of depletions because if we’re giving so much of ourselves, then we come home and then we don’t have anything left over for our families, and then they can get resentful of that. So we want to just really be aware of the balance of the two, that it’s okay that we don’t have to feel like we have to give so much of ourselves. We can really just kind of pull back. And then when we do that, it actually allows more room for the client’s feelings to be there as well. [CLODY] So the first step really is to acknowledge how we are feeling and think about the things that we can do take care of ourselves? [LISA] Yes. Do you have any self-care practices that you do when you go home or in the morning or on the weekend? [CLODY] I do. Yes, just being quiet, like five minutes, so far, five minutes of quiet time is quite important to me. That’s, you mentioned about grounding and just being quiet for the first five minutes when starting therapy, whence starting everything that you do at the office is quite helpful. [LISA] Yes. And there’s been a research, maybe even closing your eyes, taking five minutes to yourself can really have a big effect on how you feel about yourself and the rest of the day and your energy level. And it also, it is really just a great practice that we just actually take five minutes, be quiet, maybe go inward and just noticing what’s happening inside ourselves. And it’s like, oh, maybe I don’t want to take that to work with me. I mean, I don’t want to take that into this therapy session with me. Can I just kind of scoop that up whatever it is? Maybe we’re experienced some sadness, some anger, something happened at home, we had a bad phone call. Put that off to the side on the shelf, so we can be really fully present with our clients to allow them to be whatever they need to bring to this session, whatever emotions and feelings and thoughts that they want to bring. [CLODY] I agree, Lisa. The other thing that I really find helpful is finding time with my colleagues like having coffee with them, having lunch with them, or just having a laugh with them. That really helps a lot. [LISA] Oh yes. That’s saying laughter is the best form of medicine is actually true. If we can laugh every day, laughter, and actually even if we don’t feel happy, if we can just really just turn the ends of our lips up, just a little bit to have a slight smile, that will increase our endorphins, our feel good hormones. [CLODY] That’s right. So it’s mainly having a break on your own and spending time with others, which is having a break with others. [LISA] Yes. So during therapy, we hear a lot of stories or hear a lot of traumatic things and that can feel like really heavy. So we have other people, especially colleagues that we can just be around and share, not what’s, not to break confidentiality, but just to share. Well, like I just had a hard session or that wasn’t easy and just have them like kind of reflect that for you. And that feels so better. We feel so much better inside. [CLODY] That’s true. [LISA] Have you ever had that kind of experience? [CLODY] Oh yes. Yes. And it doesn’t matter. It could be even just for three minutes or longer than that. As long as you’re able to share and find support in others, that will be really helpful. [LISA] Yes. So Clody, what do you want to take away from our talk today? [CLODY] A lot. That being highly sensitive can be a gift and we cannot be good therapists if we are not highly sensitive. But there is also a downside to it. And it’s good to know that there are so many things that we can do to find balance between getting exhausted and being very effective at the same time. [LISA] Yes. And thank you. Just like wrapping that up into a nice package there. So yes, just really recognizing the balance between when we’re in our gift, are we giving too much? Do I need to do something for myself so I’m not feeling depleted or tired. Because those are actually really, well, we’re feeling that about ourselves. That’s really good indicators to check in with ourselves and say, “Hey, maybe I need to step back a little bit, hold my energy back so I’m not feeling that over tired or exhausted.” [CLODY] That’s right. And who benefits from this? Us therapists and our patients as well? [LISA] Yes. So thank you Clody, for coming on the show today. [CLODY] You are very welcome. [LISA] And thank you my listeners for tuning in. Remember to subscribe, rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. And this is Lisa Lewis reminding each one of you that you are okay. Until next time, take care. Thank you for listening today at Am I Okay? Podcast. If you are loving the show, please rate, review and subscribe to it on your favorite podcast platform. Also, if you’d like to learn how to manage situations as a highly sensitive person, discover your unique gift as a highly sensitive person, and learn how to be comfortable in your own skin, I offer a free eight-week email course called Highly Sensitive People. Just go to amiokpodcast.com to sign up. In addition, I love hearing from my listeners, drop me an email to let me know what is on your mind. You can reach me at lisa@amiokpodcast.com. . This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or any other professional information. If you want to professional, you should find one.